Time for Linus to make another video

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tfake
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Time for Linus to make another video
indigoparadox
indigoparadox's picture
The newer macbooks were havin

The newer macbooks were having trouble with Linux, too. Kind of funny since Linus himself uses a Macbook Air (with Fedora, IIRC).

Supposedly the reason Clover Trail won't support Linux is because in order to achieve its low-power feats it requires special "hints" from the kernel that Linux just doesn't give. Of course, fixing that should hopefully be doable by the community once the chip is out.

Saying a chip "doesn't support Linux" really sounds like more of a dare to me than anything else. "Wanna bet?"

tfake
tfake's picture
This probably means that ther

This probably means that there will be a host of tablets that, initially, are locked into running windows until somebody breaks whatever lockdowns the companies decided to implement to prevent people from installing another OS.

indigoparadox
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This doesn't have anything to

This doesn't have anything to do with secure boot, if that's what you mean. That's a completely separate issue from Clover Field.

Like I said in my other post, the Clover Field processor just seems to require runtime information the Linux kernel doesn't provide (yet). Intel didn't say "Linux is banned from this chip!" They just said it's not supported. In other words, they're not going to do the work to make Linux work on it.

Granted, most tablet manufacturers probably won't, either-- it wouldn't be very profitable-- but as of yet nobody's said anything to indicate the community will need to, say, bypass any encryption to port the Linux kernel to run on this CPU (unless the CPU happens to be in a tablet that ALSO uses UEFI secure boot and ALSO does not provide an option to disable it-- which may be true for some tablets, granted, but it has nothing to do with the news about Clover Field).

~_~

tfake
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From what I understand many

From what I understand many tablets are locked into the operating system that comes installed on the device. If Intel is not supporting Android or any other Linux distro by the time the devices hit the market, the tablets only support windows, and they are locked into the manufacturer installed operating system then it seems like its going to be a little difficult to install any Linux distro until somebody finds a way to install another operating system on the device.

indigoparadox
indigoparadox's picture
Phones, tablets, or whatever,

Phones, tablets, or whatever, are sometimes locked to the operating system installed on them at the factory. This is done using cryptography and the bootloader. If they don't have a locked bootloader then it's usually just an issue of writing a new kernel into an area addressable by the tablet's CPU/SOC's CFE (or since this is an X86 platform, presumably the UEFI interface) using whatever OS came with the tablet and then rebooting.

Intel's Clover Trail, from what I've read, has nothing to do with this lockdown. The problem is apparently that if you took an unlocked tablet and burned a Linux kernel into it, the kernel wouldn't know how to keep the CPU running because the CPU requires constant power state information above and beyond what is currently provided by the kernel.

This just means someone probably has to sit down and analyze the power state information fed to the chip by the Windows kernel and then they can make the Linux kernel repeat that information and away we go. If they have to break the crypto on the bootloader first because it happens to be one of the models of tablet that a manufacturer (not Intel) has purposely locked the bootloader on, then that's a separate issue and has always been the case before Clover Trail was ever conceived of. It has absolutely nothing to do with the article as posted.

tfake
tfake's picture
I'm not making a technical

I'm not making a technical point about the chip itself, I' m making a point about the implications of having devices in the marketplace that contain chips that only support Windows and that are locked down.

indigoparadox
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Have it your way. ~_~

Have it your way. ~_~

On the topic of mobile devices with locked down chips, I wonder when that bastard Linus Torvalds is going to finally back away from the insidious DRM he baked into my Sharp Zaurus. He totally locked it down by not writing hardware support for it into modern kernels, thus forcing me to use his "Linux 2.4" kernel instead of the "Linux 3" kernel I want to use.

~___~

tfake
tfake's picture
I don't know if you are

I don't know if you are intentionally not understanding my point or that I am not making myself clear. I am not saying that, by not providing support, intel is locking down the devices with that chip., which seems to be what you are implying with your sarcastic scenario. My original assertion seems so obvious and noncontroversial that I don't understand how anybody could take issue with it.

tfake
tfake's picture
Another take on this situatio

Another take on this situation.

http://perens.com/blog/2012/09/15/1/

indigoparadox
indigoparadox's picture
Also, you mentioned Microsoft

Also, you mentioned Microsoft paying Intel, but I think it's just more realistic that nobody is paying Intel to port to Linux the power management code used to reconcile the need for low power consumption with the gross inefficiencies inherent to the x86 instruction set. It's rough, but many public companies don't tend to give to the community (or anyone) without financial incentive-- least of all, Intel.

NYbill
NYbill's picture
I hear AMD has a win8 only

I hear AMD has a win8 only chip coming out as well, called "Hondo". As much as we'd like everything to be "our way" ...MS is such a HUGE source of revenue for all involved I'm sure the chip makers need to placate the powers that be.

:/

Ah well...

indigoparadox
indigoparadox's picture
Hondo will support Linux,

Hondo will support Linux, though it won't support Android. Just like my TC1100, I guess. ~_~

And like I'm saying, saying you "don't support Linux" is just another way of saying you "will support Linux after the chips and specs are on the market and the community has had time to add support to the kernel." It just means the manufacturer won't spoonfeed you. We should be used to that, and we don't need to be spoonfed.

When did this forum turn into Slashdot? ~_~

NYbill
NYbill's picture
Its not Slashdot... Its a

Its not Slashdot... Its a place to repost reddit links. :P

indigoparadox
indigoparadox's picture
+1

Wish I had more upvotes to give you.

indigoparadox
indigoparadox's picture
Sorry to thread hijack. The

Sorry to thread hijack. The mods can delete this post if they disapprove, but there's another thing here I don't get. Since we're posting about Linus making videos and Reddit links, I just got a reply in a Reddit thread I had started suggested (probably not completely seriously) that I should get Linus to tell off a GPL violator.

Are people serious when they say this? Has anyone noticed NVidia's tacit response to Linus so far? We still don't have open NVidia drivers, and it might be my imagination but the quality of the current drivers seems to have gotten a bit worse (I say as I'm opening six calculator windows to get one that isn't a blank white box)! It seems a little bit cynical for Linux nerd humor, so I was wondering if maybe I'm just going crazy.

EDIT: Reading comprehension.

indigoparadox
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Oh, my bad, looks like NVidia

Oh, my bad, looks like NVidia is taking baby steps in the right direction after all.

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